HALL OF SHAME, PICTURES OF FAKE TUBES

We all need something to believe in, even when they know it is not true. Plain truth can make people unhappy sometimes. Many greatest books and movies, contain stories which never happened, and yet it can make grown up person cry tears. We seem to need it.

Tube faking and wine faking have a long tradition. There are some REAL professional companies faking tubes in a way, which will make you fall off your chair if you only knew. For instance I know of a company in Switzerland, who has access to real (NOS) tube printing tools (for the glass) and re-printed boxes.

There is a German company, who offered on Ebay to professionally re-work and gold plate tube pins of ECC tubes, so they look like new again. I do not say this is good or bad, but I want to point out here, this is possible.

Also the fakes can be 25 or 50 years old, like the ones from a (still existing) Swiss company who re-printed cheap tubes with expensive brands by 10.000's. These may have had many owners (for instance five owners, in 40 years) before they are for sale in the internet, where we all see them, and where you think you spot the once in your life opportunity, waiting for YOU there.

So the situation is, you can get really old tubes, in fungus boxes, with dust of 50 years on it, and inside is the fake job by an unknown company who did so half a century ago.

However, many fakes are done a bit stupid. Like fakers buy used TFK ECC83 on Ebay (with the diamond <> mark in the bottom.) and then re stamp them as Telefunken ECC803S, with a new printed box. Make the box a bit old and dusty, and there you are, your good old ECC803S from somebodies uncle who just died. Without guarantee, and no returns of course, because that's normal in Ebay, right? Well it pays off, since mint condition Telefunken ECC803 costs up to 1500 Euro each (as I write this in 2011). Some people always buy it, and think they have the deal of their life for only 500€ for a matched pair. It's just those fakes I add here when I can get hold of a picture. Just for the fun of it, and for just showing how some simple details tell the truth.

An interesting situation is when there was this really huge batch of faked TESLA ECC803 in 2006. I issued a warning on the largest www.non-moderated-Gossip Forum, called: Audio Asylum. Guess what that sparked! Oh, they LOVED it. Everybody was poking into it, and it generated a private email list for myself, with qualified people, to whom I communicated the rest of the inside information. THEN...... in the meantime, .the original faking person was reading this too, and started a dispute with me via email, under a false email address. (I didn't know him, because I bought the tubes via another dealer!). After sending this out to my private mailing list, there was a person who recognized his writing style. So that is how I find out his identity. For who knows him, his name starts with an L, and ends with an O. Then I asked my dealer the simply question: Did you get those tubes from "L....O", and his answer was... Yes! So that is how the case got cleared.

Now comes an interesting the learning experience. After posting that warning, I had several tube dealers asking to buy those fake tubes, and offer me some profit on the the batch. It were so many, I realized how sick some people are, and I learned a few names of dealers I would never buy something from. I decided not to sell any of those, and return the whole lot to the seller (who took them back - no problem). Six weeks after, I noticed a few times larger batches of "unprinted JJ ECC803S" were for sale by obscure sellers on Ebay.

Another USA company of excellent reputation got screwed also with the Fake TESLA's and we stayed in contact about it. They decided to wipe off the printing completely, and sell them as JJ without printing. Which is what they are indeed.

Not only JJ tubes are used to fake expensive tubes, though the JJ are quite popular for this purpose. I think that's because they're cheap. Still any other low cost tube can be used for it also. It has been common practice amongst fakers, to put EI tubes into reprinted Philips boxes. This is obvious, because these tubes are made on Philips tools, and JJ on old Telefunken look-alike tools.

Another source is the rejects of the tube factories, struggling to survive, and that don't pay their employees well. Think what it means for a person with a low salary, when his boss tells him to dispose those 5000 pieces audio tubes, that have quality issues. What would he do? This amount fits in the trunk of his car. So he says: Yes boss, I put them in my car, and drive it to the junk yard for you. Then sell it for 3$ / each to a faker. It means 15.000$ tax free money for those people in the factory chain. It means $35.000 profit for the faker when he sells them for $10 each on the large auction site where all gold diggers are looking for nuggets. Then, imagine that is done in countries where $35000 is a five year's salary. So do you really think this man throws these tubes away?

A newer way of faking is getting popular now. Since NOS prices go up anyway, people buy NOS tubes, in possibly nicest looking boxes. Then use them for years, and after that put them back into their boxes, and sell them on an auction as NOS again, and likely make a profit even. Or, some have for instance used Telefunken in their amplifier, run for thousands of hours. Then buy a pair of NOS with boxes, swap the tubes, and when they are lucky pay almost nothing for changing old tubes into new. However under the microscope you can see that have been unplugged 20 times.

So how to detect real NOS? If you are unexperienced, it's hard. A good technician can not be fooled with the electrical data coming from a parametric tube tester, such as the Russian L3-3 or it's digital version, the Amplitrex AT1000. (no change to pick those out with a Hickock). Myself I know the "feel" of real old glass which has never been heated since 60 years. It is a bit slippery. There is some layer on it, which evaporates after first heat up. Sometimes there is a flash of vinegar smell when the glass heats up first time after 50 years. Also the print is often softened from storage, which effects disappears after first heating, that is also proof. I know how RFT tube pins feel on my thumb. They are scratchy. So I can spot any RFT blind, no matter what they print on the glass. TESLA E88CC Gold pin has often a somewhat smaller pin diameter. You just need to know a lot about tubes, that helps a lot ;) There is the smell of a tube box from the 1950's, it is definitely another one as from the 1980's. Paper detoriates over time a lot, and the smell of that detoriation is extremely characteristic. I heat up the empty boxes with a hot air gun to extract that smell. If you want to do this yourself, you can really learn quickly to keep apart old boxes from reprints. A re-printed box has no detoriation smell, even when made dirty and dusty. When you have many tubes of the same kind, you can document the burn-in effect of long stored tubes. That proves they are NOS. And last but not least, the human factor. I know which of my suppliers I can trust unseen, and which needs more control.

So now enjoy the pictures coming!

Please don't:

  • Write emails about tubes from your collection, to ask if they are fake or not. Also don't write emails about Ebay auctions. I used to kindly answer such emails, but the chat sessions that result only seem to have wasted my time.

Please do:

  • Post questions like this to the tube forums in the internet. For instance Audioasylum is a great place for techno babble and discussions about opinions. Thanks for understanding! Where ever you buy, specially auction web sites, remember this: What appears too good to be true, is most probably just that.
  • Also take this advice: A large part of the normal market price, should be there one day before the auction ends. If not, that is because people with money and knowledge about those tubes, are not bidding. If these stay away, you better stay away too.
  • Send pictures of fakes tubes when you have some, so we can make this overview more interesting.
HISTORICAL FAKES OF ECC803S

I know directly from a retired Telefunken Employee, that only VERY FEW ECC803S were ever made, and most of them went into measurement equipment of Wandel & Golterman. ECC803S is a long life tube. Fine with me, but I remember from the days of tube Television, that ECC83 was not really long life at all. So supply today is naturally speaking very very low.

There is one particular appearance of fake ECC803S that pops up again and again. Here is an interesting detail of a batch I found. These had date code72508. Inside were Sylvania 12AX7, but the original " 12AX7WA Made in USA" was on the glass still. This was like the "small printing" as on most Philips and Siemens tubes, perhaps you know this kind of letter type. Only here, it was on the top of the tube, AND..... it sort of wiped off by itself, just by cleaning the glass with a cloth. Now this is extremely unlogical for a fake job with bad intentions, to leave that on. What we see here, appears to be in line with general behavior of tube factories, just fill in momentary need with other brands. Going further with assumptions.... Was this done at Telefunken itself? I think not. Reason is, if done at Telefunken itself, they would have used the normal small boxes. However the date code 72508 was in the larger boxes of EL84.

BOXES: The box dimensions were standardized. There were long boxes for EL84 and similar, and short boxes for ECC83 and similar. Interesting, so far the fake ECC803S were offered in long boxes.

Of course I can not guarantee someone picks a good date code from a real ECC803S, but these codes I have seen on fakes. Official Telefunken date codes start with letter "U"

DATECODES: 72056, 72058 Probably done in Switzerland

104x, 32058, 30140, 91140. Seen so far. Don't know what these are.

Telefunken <> E88CC, used tubes re-printed and re-packed in 100pcs boxes. Terrible case!

To make sure we talk about the same, we call such tubes also fakes, because the faking is here to make you believe you buy new tubes, but what you are getting are used tubes. re-printed extremely nice but with some mistakes, and packed in new boxes. This may be going on since quite a while, since the moment I discover it, is sure not the moment they started with it. Also I was offered several time E88CC in boxes of hundred pcs. First time was in 2009 from France. After that most offers were from the countries around the Slovak Republic. At the moment, with NOS tubes getting rarer and rarer, and the tube users community growing so enormously, and greedy people outbid each other on auction sites to buy crap for high prices.... what else did you expect. Read a detailed report about it here.


China Tubes

12AT7 "Studer" China made.

These are not fakes, because they're not said to be USA or Europe made, but I have no other place to put this information. These are "Studer" tubes, this Swiss company makes top class studio equipment, and personally I can not imagine they use China tubes. To me it is unknown if the Studer Company had those made officially, and if so, all things are ok. Or, some joker misused the expensive Studer brand to sell cheap Chinese tubes for high prices. This will stay unclear for ever ;)


Sylvania 12AT7
Fakes


Left = Original China
Right = Original USA

ECC81 / 12AT7 Sylvania Holland. More Chinese tubes.

I never expected such a tube as 12AT7 to be faked this way. First they took a relative inexpensive brand. Second they took a tube of which a lot of NOS is found still, and actually 12AT7 is the easiest to get (real) NOS tube. So this whole thing doesn't seem to make sense. Still the person who send me those pictures was 100% sure. So I investigated better, and I found in my collection some Chinese 12AT7, and INDEED these are exactly the same.

The fakes boxes are just white boxes with a sticker over it. At first sight, you can recognize the typical "Pan" shape of the getter, as with the China 12AT7, the glass diameter is much wider as with Sylvania, and the double mice is typical for the Chinese. If you click on each picture, you can only come to the conclusion the tubes in the top picture are fakes.

As always, found on an auction website.


 

ECC803S re branded JJ tubes

This is really the worst thing that I have ever seen.

Let me carefully say it like this, TESLA ECC803S is the rarest TESLA tube I know of. You can only pick them up one by one, as a tube dealer, and hope to make pairs one day later. After this extreme fake story (check link above) the people who did so, will sure try again, but be more careful, and likely not try it again in quantities if 500 or 1000 again, as they did. Full 100pcs boxes is close to absurd for this ULTRA-RARE tube of which only VERY FEW were ever made. So any internet based source from Hong Kong, or obscure sellers, where these pop up regularly, and not even so expensive, please check for the elementary differences I found between NOS TESLA and new made JJ. This will make ECC803S faking a lot more risky, after I published that. (Check high resolution, detailed pictures in above link).

SO: I never buy them if only some unsharp, low resolution pictures are shown, from HK dealers. For miracles you better read the books of Anderssen.

HERE YOU SEE REAL ECC803S Telefunken

These have ALLWAYS all of this:

  • Gold pins
  • Short "boxed" anodes.
  • Diamond <> in the bottom.
  • Made in Germany
  • Short boxes. Black and white print, or color print.
  • People say date code must starts with a letter U , for the ULM factory, though I have no way to verify this, and I do not like to repeat opinions here as if they are facts.

IT IS A SHAME TO SEE MANUFACTURERS OF NEW MADE TUBE ABUSE THE ECC803S PART NUMBER FOR TUBES THAT ARE BY DEFINITION LOWER QAULITY. TFK ECC803S WAS A FRAME GRID TUBE. A FRAME GRID TUBE HAS LOWER MICROPHONICS, TIGHTER PARAMETERS, AND YES IT COSTS MORE TO BUILD IT. WHAT IS THE REASON TO SELL YOU NON FRAME GRID TUBES UNDER THE ECC803S PART NUMBER? THE ANSWER IS: PROFIT, PROFIT, PROFIT.

ECC803S TFK (#7)

These are re branded M8137

  • This is curious, because M8137 is a very expensive NOS tube. It can cost 250 Euro today. From this it can be concluded this fake job was done long before the NOS tube hype.

More pictures here

ECC803S TFK (#5)

These are re branded ECC83

more pics - more pics

  • Fakers just copy what they see on other tubes. Anyway GABL is German for "Garantie Abgeloest". If you see this on a tube, it means they were originally sold to the German Post, and GABL means the post handled guarantee themselves.
  • Worth only 10% compared to the real one
  • I think these were faked decades ago, so the seller may not even know.

ECC803S TFK (#4)

This quad was sold on Auction Website for 901 Euro, April 2008.

  • No gold pins
  • Made in Germany is missing
  • Genuine TFK ECC803S Date codes start with letter "U"
  • Inside is not the famous frame grid tube, but a normal long plate ECC83
  • Worth only 10% compared to the real one
  • I think these were faked decades ago, so the seller may not even know.

ECC803S TESLA

ECC803S TESLA

Sold on Auction Website

  • Logo is too big, and silly looking
  • This his kind of speckled "paint" was never used by Tesla.
  • Top printing (on getter) is missing
  • Made in Slovakia? Oops. It was called Czech Republic at the days these tubes were made.
  • There is the JJ or Tesla frame grid tube inside. It was called E83CC. Not ECC83S.

ECC803S TELEFUNKEN

Sold on Auction Website

  • No gold pins
  • Made in Germany is missing
  • Genuine TFK ECC803S Date codes start with letter "U"
  • Inside is not the famous frame grid tube, but a normal long plate ECC83
  • Worth only 10% compared to the real one
  • I think these were faked decades ago, so the seller may not even know.

ECC803S TELEFUNKEN

Sold on Auction Website

  • Claims to be completely different seller, but obviously the same photographer was at work here ;)
  • BEWARE FOR THE DATECODE 8104x as on this tube
  • Genuine TFK ECC803S Date codes start with letter "U"

ECC803S TESLA

  • TESLA logo missing
  • Inside is NOT the system of the TESLA ECC803S. Systems like this can be found in E83CC.

 

ECC803S + E83CC Telefunken

ECC803S and E83CC are not the same tubes. Here you find those part number together here on one tube, which is impossible. This is a dangerous case because it CAN be real when there is a <> in the bottom.

  • Besides the gold is very shiny. Too shiny. It was gold plated probably just yesterday.
  • BEWARE FOR THE DATECODE 32058 as on this tube.
  ECC803S ZEARIX
  • Will add pictures later. These are re branded Mullard M8173. Looks all very genuine to me. Zearix is an English brand, and Mullard an English company. What is faked here, is the part number ECC803S, which is by definition a frame grid tube, and M8137 is not. Still..... if the price is ok, these are GREAT tubes, M8137 is the second best tube after ECC803S, very rare.
  • So a fake yes, but obviously a very old one. No normal faker would use expensive M8137 for that.

ECC803S (nr11)

  • Here we have those JJ re branded tubes again on a famous auction website.
  • Same date code as the lot I was fooled with myself, some years ago. Details here
  • Another picture here, showing they have the same date code 233XN.
E88CC AEG
  • Today I welcome a new member in the hall of shame, though I do not have many of those fakes, I know many E88CC fakes exist.
  • What you see here, are new production Electro Harmonix 6922. Re branded and re boxed nicely as AEG tubes.
  • The paint is a waterproof paint.

Large picture from front

large picture from side

E83CC RSD
  • This is a funny one. RSD is a German company owned by Mr. Mueller, who died in 2010. In the days of the cold war, he used to have the exclusive right to sell East European tubes in Germany. He made good business by re-branding the tubes, and print RSD on it.
  • So is this a fake or not? Well.... E83CC is a TESLA designation for a frame grid tube, and what I see in this bulb is a non-frame grid tube. So it is NOT a E83CC, that is for sure. Judge for yourself, what you think of this, but for me personally the question is, what was whipped off there, BEFORE it was replaced by RSD.
EL34S by SHUGUANG. So called "Big bottle" EL34S / 6CA7S.

There are pentodes, and beam tetrodes, and these work not the same way. EL34 is pentode, and 6L6 is a beam tetrode. Beam tetrode's have not as good curves as pentodes, and they are lower cost to produce. I had this broken pair of Shuguang "Big bottle" EL34S, that broke down in an EL34 amplifier after short time. So decided to open the tube and look inside, perhaps find the reason for the defect. I tested the filament current before breaking the glass, the tubes had correct 1.5 Amps for EL34. Still EL34 is a pentode, and what came out was this beam tetrode.

Picture series here

On the box it says: "Shuguang Golden Dragon power tubes are the result of a collaboration of British Audiophiles, engineers, and the Shuguang tube factory"

E80F TELEFUNKEN

We do not picture them here, because of copyright. The picture was found on the website of a tube dealer. (who says he wants to asked first )

E80F (=EF86)
  • We have seen originally boxed TFK E80F which is a higher quality EF86.
  • HOWEVER these are re branded TESLA tubes. These have also the "famous" 32058 date code as we have seen on re branded tubes before.
  • Here is a picture of the REAL TFK. They have long glass. The fakes are short glass TESLA EF86.

EL34. For this tube, the situation is as typical as can be. The story is, when real TFK Germany (double getter) NOS was around, this was what we ALL wanted. And yikes, the TFK branded, RFT made (with single getter) were regarded "fakes" though they were not. The RFT are very good EL34, and TFK bought their EL34 there, not without reason. (and btw their 6SN7 are RFT made always). But if some nut writes on a forum, they sound no good, that's it. Argue against it, and you waist your time. Until.... no dealer had TFK original any more. So prices of RFT made TFK soared. Suddenly sound is GREAT. Real RFT branded EL34 were hard to sell (just dull RFT....) until recently because something happened: RFT NOS stock ran out too. So prices soared. Well, there was still real TESLA EL34, considered second choice. Guess what happened with TESLA prices. Only one thing, I think nobody needs, and that is faked Siemens tubes, made from JJ. I hope for you when you buy them, they are at least good ones, and no factory rejects that left through the back door. Avoid date code D83 like monkey plague. Just to see how silly fakers are, 6CA7 is beam not tetrode, modified to bias like EL34, and EL34 a real pentode, not even the same tube. Another picture1 - picture2 - picture3 - picture4

KT88

This is a very raw fake, because these are plain Chinese tubes in a new printed Tesla boxes. For sale from Slovakia. Letters are printed on the glass with a cheap letter stamp of the kind that you buy in book store to print your name. They just used some white paint.

Can't hide the Shuguang inside pieces with that. Check here for KT88 pictures of (real!) TESLA and SHUGUANG. So these are plain SHUGUANG KT88 (cheapest KT88 that exist) and printed those as NOS Tesla (worth 450$ for a Quad).

KT88 . I was send this picture by someone who found those on Ebay, and who was afraid they were fakes. Well, yes they are fakes. Inside is the Chinese KT88 system clearly visible.

What is even worse about these, they were offered as NOS, and they are in the box with a bad vacuum getter. This kind of getter wear out comes from use. It is no "air" inside, but tube out gassing which causes this coloring.

Conclusion: These are not NOS Genelex Golden Lion. These are heavily used tubes, only 10% of lifetime left. Faked tubes from China.

KT88. This tube I received from my friend Frank Geeraerts from Belgium, as a gift, because he knows I collect "fake". pictures. Another very raw fake. As you know, in China product faking is a national hobby.

Wow! My respect for the nice faking of the special material GEC sticker, which was (UNTIL NOW) seen as proof for genuine MO Valves.

Only the inside of the tube is not so nice faked, inside is a plain stupid Chinese fire cracker.

Do you see the white speckles in the back of the tube? That is chipped off cathode coating. When little particles of this come in between the grids, it sparkles inside the tube and it gives the famous fire cracker sound from your speakers. Also the rings around the getter flash show that there is some gas in the tube.

On the back is stamped: KT88 / 6550. Must be the latest invention. A 6550 that you can use as KT88?

E80CC

Tube tube I also received from my friend Frank Geeraerts from Belgium. He removed it himself from control electronics for elevators. E80CC is a SQ tube, something half similar like ECC82, but E80CC is tighter specified, larger plates, higher gain, and many things more. Also E80CC is 10.000 hours, SQ specified, and has almost twice the size of an ECC82, and E80CC has more plate dissipation, and twice the filament current. I remember the days where you could pick them up for 3€. Now they are 40€. (so called "NOS" on Ebay), and why not ask 60€ or 80€ , I am sure someone will pay that too.

The pictured tube has inside plates that remind me of large plate ECC82, and it doesn't look like an E80CC at all. Still the filament current is the same as with a real E80CC, and obviously the cathode is larger than an ECC82 also.

So is this a fake? I don't really know, but for me this tube is useless. I mean, a fake is a tube with false brand and/or printing on it. However, I seriously doubt for this "CV" E80CC an original SQ data sheet was ever made, and also I don't think that with those miniature plates, the original E80CC specs can be kept at all.

Knowing that CV is no manufacturer, my question is: what is the real part number of this tube, and what factory made it.

Here is a compare picture of E80CC (the real one) and this funny CV E80CC. Here is a nice picture of the Tungsram (original) E80CC version.

Used in the mother of all microphones, Neuman U47.

One of the most expensive tubes. Only 27.000 were build by TFK, and only 5% of those were said to be good enough to carry the premium "M".

Prices of 2000US$ for mint NOS are normal. Needless to say the faker's guild has also discovered this tube. Look here!

 
   

 

ATTENTION: THE FOLLOWING IS NOT AN INFORMATION ABOUT TUBE FAKING, AND I DO NOT WANT
TO SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE HERE ABOUT JJ, OR ABOUT THEIR EARLY DAYS, WHERE THEY USED THE
TESLA BRAND FOR THEIR TUBES. IT IS JUST THIS SITUATION IS NOT WELL KNOWN.

 

Look what goes up on the belt, this is an original tube shredder machine.

You wouldn't want to know about the poisonous dust it produced. The 1930's battery radio tubes in your collection have radioactive cathodes, and I have seen Telefunken 1950 tubes glowing so dark, this can NEVER work well without traces of (radioactive) Strontium. O well and all 845 have (radioactive) Thorium cathodes. It's why I don't sell them. 200 pcs in my stockroom? No thank you. I bet you didn't know that. But hey... you know now, so don't forget before the end of the day. Stabilizers have radio active Radon gas inside, and mercury drops are inside rectifiers. And many other things you would not even want to be NEAR AT if there wasn't the glass bulb around it. Poor fellow in that picture that is working with the tube shredder. This man is really ruining his health. Well in those days people were quite arrogant about such issues, and even pregnant women used to smoke, and it was not considered a crime to the unborn. So who cared if a worker is breathing a bit of Barium dust or whatever. Some people never learn anyway.